Yo Fuckheads,
I was going to waste my time talking about this bullshit election - but that's depressing, plus I'm working on my third massive High School project in the last few months, and this thing was Revited to the goddamned gills before being sent to me as a CAD file. A lot of the exterior windows/storefront have so much fucking detail (cross-sections of extrusions, fasteners, brackets, glass, etc.) that just to change everything to my background layer (without losing linetype information) required grabbing dozens and dozens of little bites.
I'm sure whoever modeled it was busy sucking their own dick over how awesome it was that they could grab views of all of the various connections to use as details and just note them up, and probably set their larger views to lower detail, but when I get the thing it's just black blobs as far as the eye can see, (and literal fucktons of extra linework - ONE GODDAMNED corner joint has 2456 lines).
Hell - one 52' wall (that has an exploded hexagonal grid hatching in it for some reason - possibly some kind of insulated glass?) contained nearly 80,000 lines. Obviously Revit handles objects differently than what I'm seeing in the exported file, but as many people have pointed out, EVERY SINGLE PERSON using a Revit model has to be aware of how much shit their families are bringing to the table (even if you are just linking a file) to keep it from turning into a bloated clusterfuck that crashes every time you look at it wrong.
I'm sure if the person who exported this file gave a shit (instead of most likely opining why anyone wouldn't just do everything in Revit) they could have set up a background specifically for export that didn't have 4 trillion extra lines that add zero value to the plan to anyone who isn't an Architect (and questionable value for those who are). Even then, there are always fucked up view problems, overlapping shit due to multiple disciplines. Overlapping (or more amusingly - slightly offset) architectural + mechanical families for toilets/sinks/etc. is a common one - I deleted a couple from this plan as well.
A stylized plan with a little extra detail is cool - and I will leave one alone (other than a little tidying up) if it isn't horribly bloated. I can remember a time when I could select an entire floor plan (sometimes even multiple floors of a building) and change layer all at once from properties. I'm not sure what the upward limit is - but it's in excess of what is necessary to depict a floor plan, that's for damn sure. I've talked (at great length) about how I get a little OCD when I start cleaning one up - but there is nothing quite like having a super-clean background to work on.
Keeping the file size reasonable also guarantees that the file will open/save quickly - change views quickly (not sure why, but the last one would take forever to switch paper space views - and I'm making damn sure this one doesn't go the same route). Someone else set that one up (and had started this one) and while I did some cleanup on the other one, I'm going to beat every last bit of unnecessary shit out of this one. There were a few other systems that the other guy was going to leave in just in case we pick them up later, but I'm ditching them (we can always bring them back in from the original drawings we received).
What's great is that even though I like to complain about the garbage files I receive - I can slap on my headphones, crank up some death metal, and fix any stupid fucked up piece of shit that some moron sent me with ACAD. Nobody is going to build anything off of my drawings, so as long as I'm accurately representing what the people installing my systems need to see, then I've got a lot of leeway. Even if it takes the majority of a day to get it ready to go forward - I used to spend the majority of a day trying to get one stupid fucking thing to work in Revit (on an annoyingly regular basis) and that didn't guarantee I wouldn't actually be further into a fucking hole than when I started.
I was highly amused by a recent response to a post I did back in December of 2013 while I was still under the Revit bootheel. Some idiotic fucking glitch (that came out of nowhere) was making it to where I suddenly couldn't add light fixtures to a circuit. Apparently, despite multiple new releases of Revit since then, they were running into exactly the same issue. It seems like it was limited to one file (could have been one of the thousands and thousands of unnecessary settings - but both I and others went through it repeatedly with no success, leaving me having to fake it in).
But hey - at least they've got 'sketchy lines' now (oh, and the ability to make stuff in the foreground stand out better).
Fucking Fuckwits.
Fuck Autodesk, Fuck Revit, Fuck anyone forcing good, hardworking individuals into using Revit, and if you don't like it - GET FUCKED.
Sincerely,
S.F.
Next Time - I go after Motherfucking Microsoft Word (it will make more sense when you read it).
What software do you suggest as a better alternative for electrical design and 3D coordination?
ReplyDeleteDesignMaster has it all..electrical design/calcs/schedules and the BS of Revit can work with it, though the meat and potatoes is still with basic Autocad...I know I used it 15 years ago and it was GREAT BACK THEM!! It is far easier than any software for electrical design, built by ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS and ELECTRICAL DESIGNERS>..DDUH!
DeleteHey all, got a notification about someone loving design master for autocad. the comment must have been deleted. design master isnt bad for a small firm. But you can not work across the network and if the projects get way to large we would experience a lot of issues. also its in shitty autocad. #revit4dayz
DeleteI was thoroughly impressed by the Electrical portion of Bentley's BIM software - especially the way they integrated the 'Visual' lighting design program. I'm sure it has it's share of problems though (not least of which would be trying to make it work unless everyone was using Microstation). I have heard good things about Bluebeam for electrical design, but I don't know that it has a 3D portion.
ReplyDeleteMy attitude towards coordination is that it is best done by someone who actually knows how to read plans (since that is what is going to be issued), and will actually take the time to sit down and review the drawings. I watched multiple projects where people expected Revit to 'coordinate' for them, and allow their brains to shut off.
What happened more often than not was someone would have one of the quarter-billion or so view settings set incorrectly and so they would either not see key pieces of information, or would make assumptions about how it was going to work (exacerbated by projects with linked models) - which would have been easily caught by someone (with a functioning brain) looking at an actual set of plans.
I've seen Structural make platforms for giant pieces of HVAC equipment, which were then totally ignored by the Mechanical designers. I've seen projects where (inexplicably) various things could not be seen - despite hours spent attempting to adjust all of the aforementioned view settings.
I've watched Reviteers design entire buildings with no thought given to how that building was going to be situated on the site. Putting electrical rooms at one end of a 600' long building, despite the largest electrical load (an HVAC chiller) being located 100' away from the opposite end of the building.
My software of choice has been, and continues to be Autocad. I could give a fuck about 3D (with the exception of lighting design - which I always did in 'Visual' which was fully 3D, (and which I was using for years before Revit and it's apologists came along).
When everyone is working in CAD - nothing is hidden. I could export a Revit Architectural model into CAD, and catch rookie mistake after rookie mistake that even experienced Architectural lackies missed because they were spending their whole day (or days at a time) trying to figure out how to force Revit to do even the most basic tasks.
The exported Revit files I receive on a regular basis now (and which I was addressing in this article) are a total fucking mess. Massive amounts of unnecessary detail - combined with an almost childish understanding of design.
The actual Architects at these firms (most of whom don't use, and don't care about what software their buildings are designed in) have been put in the position of heading up teams of Reviteers who struggle to get anything on paper, and so they have to be happy with what they actually do get (weeks late, and with design budgets overrun).
Autocad has limitations too - but goddamn it, I can see what I'm working on, and know that it won't ever fuck me - and that's golden.
Just out of curiosity, how long did you use revit for? And did you set it up or just use it how it comes out of the box?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that its got a lot of messed up functionality. I also run into times where I am wasting hours trying to figure things out or having to "fake it" (more in the earlier years of using). In a sense its like a race car where it has a manual transmission, you as the operator have to adjust your suspension correctly, air pressure in your tires, the type of tire etc. My point being just jumping into revit is like a jumping into a race car and hoping to be a great racer, even after say a year of using that car there are still things you probably wont know about it. If you have revit setup correctly it is the bees knees! I use Revit for electrical design and I love it! I couldn't imagine going back to acad.
I recently just started using Revit for mechanical design and oh boy does it piss me off! It is definitely getting better as the weeks go by and I learn more. If I didnt know how sweet it was for electrical, I would probably want to give up on it with the mechanical side.
Can't say that I have tried Bentley out, so there is no comment there, I have heard of it, but never really spent any time researching it myself since I don’t choose to look for an alternative because everyone uses Revit for a reason.
ReplyDeleteAs for Bluebeam, that is a great program for a lot of things, you could consider me a Bluebeam activist even, but it is not a design software. Can it be used for it? Sure, but there are so many reasons why you should not unless you absolutely can’t afford Revit/AutoCAD, or if you just dabble in design periodically.
The “quarter-billion or so view settings” are there for a reason, giving you more options and ways to see or not see things in your view and I find use in all of them in different situations. It’s not that hard to understand how and why they work as they do. Have I been screwed before because something didn’t show up on a drawing when it should have because of one of these settings? Yes, but it was my fault, not the software’s fault. I often know exactly why something is showing up or not showing up as soon as I see the issue. I completely understand the frustration with these settings though, but in the end I just choose to blame my dumb brain instead of the software.
As for putting an electrical room in the least efficient/cost effective spot in a building, that has nothing to do with Revit, that is the designer’s fault. That is pretty standard knowledge when it comes to designing an efficient distribution system.
When everyone is working in CAD, everyone is dumb, all the information is dumb, nothing is connected, and everything is manual input, unless you are using add-ins or other MEP functions with it, either way information is not typically active. You have zero ability to assign parameters to information, filter information efficiently, actively schedule information, or even assign formulas for schedules or blocks to add more intelligent useful information.
I get all your Revit headaches, been there done that, I know that I’m not changing anyone’s mind here either, but I was curious to see your input on alternatives. You are very right on your frustration with a lot of things, and I actually enjoyed reading a lot of these posts btw. I don’t wish that you stop posting these things about Revit because I find them hilarious actually and will probably keep coming back and reading, but that is my two cents as a proud “Reviteer”!
I appreciate the input - obviously this blog isn't really an objective discussion about Revit, and was pretty much just a way to let me vent. I started using Revit around 2009 - and found it to be obtuse and buggy.
ReplyDeleteIf my job had just consisted of putting out a project every month or so, I might've had more time to dial it in, but my typical workload was between 6-12 projects of varying scale, scope, and schedule (although most of them had a schedule of 'yesterday').
I needed software that allowed me to open a project quickly, manipulate drawings quickly, and get on to the next task - quickly.
Waiting as Revit struggled to open a model (especially with other models linked to it) and immediately having it refuse to do something it had done earlier (or just crash) literally mafe me feel like I was on some kind of prank show where an unseen host was attempting to break my sanity.
Despite this, I was able to issue several projects that were 100% Revit - including a Kia dealership, some restaurants, industrial facilities, apartments, etc.
We had developed a template - but it still felt like every time I would start a new project that I was starting from scratch. One major breakthrough was when we stopped using linked files (as that firm had all architectural and engineering disciplines under one roof) and went to using a single master file.
More attention started getting paid to developing some standards - especially making sure that people weren't tossing obscenely huge 3rd party families into the model.
Still, as I mentioned before - I was almost always at the mercy of other peoples poor decisions (whether they were Revit's fault or not). Either way, they resulted in exponentially more work due to Revit's rigid workflow.
In Max's example I would liken Revit to a car with an automatic transmission (I'm a die hard manual driver) that decides what gear you WILL USE, occasionally shifting into 5th while you are climbing a hill or dumping you into first while going 70 down the interstate. Adjusting the air pressure causes the rear view mirrors to fall off, and tweaking the suspension makes the radio play 'Achey Breaky Heart' on a loop, at full volume, with no way to turn it off.
Have fun Reviting - just don't be surprised when the steering fails (due to inexplicably being made of baklava) and leaves you in a ditch (again).
hahaha, "Achey Breaky Heart", what a great tune. Maybe I'll add that to my list after I'm done listening to Any Given Day today.
ReplyDeleteI have found if you use just about anything third party for Revit, especially for electrical, you are definitely going to be doing it the hard way. I build families for functionality, and try and take as much human error out as possible. I have all kinds of complaints about Revit, but the very thought of possibly going back to AutoCAD makes me die a little inside. If your computer is crashing Revit, but wasn't crashing AutoCAD as much, you were also doing something wrong. AutoCAD was the worst for crashing in my experiences, never accidentally hold that shift button when you are panning, your computer will go into a coma….haha.
Well anyway, keep up the funny posts, I’ll be sure to check back from time to time.
Hey Guy,
ReplyDeletetoo funny! you are definitely the autodesk comic, I LOVE IT!
I would also have to agree that I have horrible crashing experiences with CAD vs revit. When in revit, if you're not using project starter files then you're operating wrong. Templates are useless in a sense, they create a lot of re inventing the wheel. I cant wait to read your next post! and how come we didnt get any Fuck you's?!?! I was hoping to get yelled at! :(
HAHAHA, Yes I'm disappointed also that I didn't at least get called a fucktard or something :(
DeleteOne more thing I noticed. Reading this page messes with my eyes. When I am done reading and look to a different monitor everything in my vision is all jacked up. Not sure what that is all about considering my revit background is black with white writing. You have some voodoo shit going on here??
ReplyDeleteDamn... re-reading my responses to your comments, and they almost sound like an attempt at reasonable discussion. Fuck that. I'm going to have to shake off this feeling of contentment not using Revit for 14+ months has given me and start tearing some new assholes!!!
ReplyDeleteOh, and the reason this page messes with your eyes is because I deliberately set the top clip plane below the cut plane (fucktard).
Somewhere in the settings for this website there is a checkbox that is lost among a sea of other checkboxes that is or is not checked that needs to be, checked or unchecked so that we can read these shitty nonsensical blogs that nobody reads without getting a brain hemorrhage.
DeleteAYYEEE GUY!
DeleteNow thats what I am talking about! It was almost as if you didnt mind Revit and you were willing to test your tendencies out once again (revit, or another form)
One of your new loyal reviteer followers!
Man, I tell ya.
ReplyDeleteI work in architecture, and I hadda get on the Revit train about 8 months back. It is like swimmin' through molasses. It didn't take long to google "fuck Revit" and land on this blog. I pop back in whenever it all becomes too much to bear.
The basic concept isn't a bad thing -- 3D representation that automatically keeps your plans, elevations and sections synched up? Yeah, man, sign me up. No more going through 10 separate files to update the same thing again and again. No more remembering that every time you touch X, you also have to fix it in Y, Z, A, B and C. Easy updates to your engineers.
But the execution is so staggeringly bad. It's unfathomable. So many bugs, flaws, and quirks. So many workarounds and fake-outs. Such a bad control setup. So many obtuse settings and little checkboxes with incomprehensible names, buried 5 layers deep in boxes, menus, tabs and tables. I really have spent entire mornings just trying to accomplish insanely basic shit, trying to prevent Revit from doing something I don't want, trying to make sure it's not doing something off-screen without telling me. It's utterly maddening.
Revit was sold to us like a jet airplane: It's 10 times faster than a car! It goes really high! It's the latest high tech! But the car was easy to drive and really, we just needed to pop across town and pick up some groceries. Now we have to drive 30 miles to the airport, figure out what 500 dials and knobs do, and spend more time taxiing and fueling up than we do actually going anywhere.
That's an apt comparison - except that they also made the nosecone of the jet the seat so you have to jam it up your ass and try to figure out how to fly the thing from there.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to everyone's age in this thread I am guessing the Skullfuck himself is in his 40's??
ReplyDeleteI am 29, your classic millennial, crushing it in the technology field *owning revit* and riding that Trump Train hard!
Maybe Trump will make Revit Great again for you guys??
Hey I'm a 29 year old classic millennial, crushing it in the technology field "owning Revit" and riding that Trump Train too! Must be a common theme among Reviteers.
DeleteCan someone please translate these people's comments? I don't speak faggot.
ReplyDelete*VV* back slash, all visible_E
ReplyDeleteYou people are scaring me. Im 40 and am in the process of transitioning to Revit. I just did a door family tutorial today and felt like I was trying to translate morse code (i cant translate morse code). The level of complexity involved is overwhelming. Im worried that these complex relationships between things are going to consume huge amounts of my time to a. setup b. tweak and c. correct when they go pear-shaped (which I am guessing will be frequent). I can foresee me getting lost in menus and sub-menus and dialogue box with unremarkable and unremembered-able names that mean nothing to me, searching for things only to realise that they're not there. Is there a secret to using the software without entering this labyrinth or should i back track to AutoCAD (which would kill me inside). ArchiCAD? Ive been told that it's Revit for dummies (read architects). Help! Please help me. For the love of God.
ReplyDeleterevit is the bomb dot com, stay golden pony boy :)
DeleteThat is so weird - I hadn't seen 'The Outsiders' in years, but I was just watching 'The Secret Life Of Walter Mitty' and the guy he meets on the boat who keeps quoting American movies/shows shouts 'stay gold pony boy' at him as he is running for the bike...
DeleteWell I would say that is a definite sign for you to get back on the Revit train. Nothing else it really could be.
DeleteTempting...
DeleteWelcome Seysearles - as far as I can tell, your options are:
ReplyDeletea) Shut the fuck up and use Revit.
b) Tell everyone using Revit to shut the fuck up, and to go fuck themselves.
I picked 'b', never looked back, and have never been happier. Obviously if you made the mistake of going into Architecture, that may or may not be an option for you.
I will go into more detail in my next post.